Under the gun: Murder in Chicago and Toronto

The suggestion that the media underreport violence in Chicago I find utterly astounding but let's look at this: Chicago has between 9 and 10 million people, Toronto has 5 to 6 million. Chicago is way worse than Toronto of that there's no doubt but it is 'extremely' sensationalized by the media.

Many Chicagoans still think their city is more dangerous than Rio de Janeiro because Rio won out on the Olympic bid (note to any non-Chicagoans; I am not making this up). Clearly they have been 'told' this repeatedly or such ludicrous thought processes have been 'coerced' into them. How many times have we been 'told' that you're more likely to die violently on the South Side than a soldier in Iraq?

There are hordes of cities in Brazil, Colombia, South Africa, Central America, Venezuela, Iraq and Mexico far, far worse than Chicago is. It's emabarrassing some of the coverage Chi gets when people are getting slaughtered in cities within the countries highlighted.

When it comes to gun control, the media usually report "findings" that support their agenda.

One major difference between Canada and the US (hence Toronto and Chicago) is that while the individual reigns supreme in the States, Canada still retains some European social consciousness. It is perhaps a bit harder to shoot someone if you have been raised to believe that there is a connection and responsibility for others' well-being.

What's the difference? Canadians spend more money on social programs and education. They have universal healthcare. As for Jose's comment about relaxed gun control in Canada, that's simply untrue: As required by federal law, all firearms must be registered. A family member in Canada owned guns, and he was required to have trigger locks on every single one of them; a very nice police officer also came to do a home inspection to see how and where they were stored. Regarding the education levels of immigrants, Canada's system is point-based: If you speak one of the two official languages, you get points; if you have a university degree, you get more points, etc.

The bigotry and lack of understanding of the comments is amazing, this mindset says a lot about what wrong with Chicago. There is so much more that contributes to the high crime in Chicago such as the gangster mentality that dates back centuries to the days of Al Capone and continues to be perpetuated. Look at the number of political leaders who have been convicted of gross crimes , and need it be said the majority of these so called corrupt leaders are white. What message does this send? Then you add to the equation, centuries of gross segregation and lack of interest in a large segment of the population. When you systematically, hold down, mistreat, disrespect, under-educate, under-employ, misrepresent people of 'any' color, you can't expect to have positive results. To say Chicago is safe as long as you stay away from the south side is ignorance at it's worst.

These statistics of course don't ever mention how many of these gun crimes were committed with illegally purchased black market firearms, and how some supposed gun ban would actually go about getting these guns off the streets. How is this angle not even mentioned? This is infuriatingly poor journalism. I'm a Chicago resident and some teenager got his brains blown out at a club a block from my house by a man with a handgun back when the handgun ban was still in effect. So how exactly did that law help that poor kid?

I hope this series mentions that gun control in these Canadian cities is far more relaxed than it is in Chicago.

Question - how many homicides are caused by those whose perpetrators acquired a gun illegally, on the streets? Until the reporter begins asking this question, there is a serious lack of investigation in terms of objectivity in this series.

I wonder if the content of this article is influenced by it's sponsors. Both the Joyce Foundation and David Bohnett Foundation heavily subsidize organizations dedicated to banning or highly restricting people's access to firearms.

The Code of Ethics for the Society of Professional Journalists states that "Journalists should be free of obligation to any interest other than the public's right to know," and specifies that:

Journalists should:

— Avoid conflicts of interest, real or perceived.
— Remain free of associations and activities that may compromise integrity or damage credibility.
— Refuse gifts, favors, fees, free travel and special treatment, and shun secondary employment, political involvement, public office and service in community organizations if they compromise journalistic integrity.

Did the Joyce and Bohnett foundations pay for this "news"?

Daniel, statistics also show that New York City's murder rate is less than 1/2 of Chicago's (Whites, 35%, Blacks 25%, hispanic 27%) and LA's is 1/2 of Chicago's (30% white, 15% black, over-40% hispanic). So, did Chicago get all the "bad" blacks and hispanics while NYC and LA got all the "good" ones? You want to believe that the difference between Toronto and Chicago is _just_ race, as if the color of your skin makes you more violent than white people.

"Daniel gets it", how do you know Toronto's immigrants are better educated than Chicago's? How do you know that immigrants in Chicago are responsible for an inordinate amount of crime - or do you just assume they are?

Actually, I don't think race is as much an indicator of likliness to commit violent crime as is poverty (and, unfortunately, the two are linked). In 2008 Chicago and Toronto had similar poverty rates (around 20%), so I think there is actually probably a lot Chicago could learn from Toronto, if we could listen instead of making excuses.

Daniel hits the nail on the head. Toronto is 8% black (and they're recent immigrants from the Caribbean, not descendants of people brought here in chains). Chicago is 36% black.

Chicago also has a huge Mexican population. Toronto has very few Mexicans. Toronto's mix of immigrants is more educated than Chicago's is.

Chicago is a very safe city as long as you never, ever go to the South Side. Stay in the white areas, and it is as safe as Toronto.

Daniel thinks the reason for so many murders is simply that blacks commit murders.

Toronto is not exactly a white Anglo-Saxon enclave. Some actual facts: "The demographics of Toronto make Toronto one of the most multicultural cities in the world. Data released by Statistics Canada as part of the 2006 census indicates that Toronto is more ethnically diverse than Miami, Los Angeles, and New York City. 49.9% of Toronto's population is foreign-born." See wikipedia for more details.

While there are fewer blacks in Toronto than in Chicago, there are more people from India, and far more "foreigners." But somehow, this ethnically-diverse population does not lead to more deaths by murder. Rather than jumping to simplistic solutions, Daniel ought to wonder why blacks in the US and Chicago in particular are in the situation of killing *and being killed* in such large numbers. Just having dark skin does not make a person a murderer, you know.

This made me laugh when I heard the promo for it last night. Why does Chicago have so many more murders than Toronto? It reminded me of when Micheal Moore asks Charlton Heston the same basic question in "Bowling for Columbine" and Heston mumbles the correct main reason by softly mumbling about "ethnic differences" but then quickly swerves away from that un-PC truth pleading ignorance and old age knowing that in the new America such truths are unacceptable.

Yes, gun-control is obviously a factor. But the obvious main answer as to why Toronto (and all of Canada) has far less gun crime per-capita than Chicago (and the US) lies in demographic differences. Simply put, Toronto has far fewer blacks than Chicago does. Blacks on average commit more gun crime than other groups such as asians (a minority group which is very large in Toronto). But this obvious truth is too politically incorrect to ever be uttered on NPR.

Very good story. However when Cukier says Americans are unfazed, or numb to gun violence because there's so much of it....
I don't think it is that. Having grown up in 10 countries around the world, I never really felt as unsafe as I do here! And the reason I think people are "numb to violence" is because for some unfathomable reason, the one right Americans will really do anything to protect is the right to own guns!!! I don't know why it is so ingrained in them. And we say it is for "safety" but I don't know a single gun owning friend who has ever needed to use a gun to protect his family, while daily people get shot due to violence or because of a gun in the house (accidental).

Why??? Why don't people get it?? I lived in third world countries, countries in upheaval and did not need a gun for my safety!! If we Americans need guns to be safe, then it is time to revisit our laws and our state and do SOMETHING about that, instead of owning MORE guns!!

Excellent premise for a story. Let's see what we can learn this week as the story continurs.

Maybe we can start an intelligent conversation about common sense ways to reduce the carnage in Chicago. I can't wait!