Silicon Valley’s so-called “millionaire maker” is a behavioral scientist who foresaw the power of putting persuasion at the heart of the tech world’s business model. But pull back the curtain that surrounds the industry’s behemoths, and you’ll find a cadre of engineers and executives that’s small enough to rein in. This is the final installment of a three-part series from The Stakes. If you haven’t heard parts one and two, start there first.

In this episode, we hear from:

- Alexandra Rutherford, Professor in the Department of Psychology at York University in Toronto and author of Beyond the Box: B.F. Skinner’s Technology of Behaviour from Laboratory to Life, 1950s-1970s

- Ian Leslie, author of “The Scientists Who Make Apps Addictive”

- B.J. Fogg, Director of the Stanford University “Behavior Design Lab”

- Tristan Harris, Co-Founder & Executive Director of the Center for Humane Technology

- Dorothy Glancy, Professor of Law at Santa Clara University

- Senator Mark Warner of Virginia

Hosted by Kai Wright. Reported by Amanda Aronczyk.