New York Magazine writer Rebecca Traister says that every new revelation about sexual harassment confirms what women have always known. In her most recent article she asks “as stories about abuse, assault, and complicity come flooding out, how do we think about the culprits in our lives? Including, sometimes, ourselves.”

Brooke spoke with Rebecca on Tuesday; it was a long and impassioned interview, a shorter version of which will be in this week’s show (a full hour about the “#metoo” moment), but in the meantime, here is a *lightly* edited version of their conversation.