This week on the Talkhouse Podcast, we’re celebrating artists who take music in unexpected and brilliant new directions. Tuesday’s show saw Tierra Whack and Nnamdi Ogbonnaya in conversation; today, we bring you a fantastic deep dive between Avey Tare of Animal Collective and Ishmael “Ish” Butler, aka Palaceer Lazaro in Shabazz Palaces, fka Butterfly of Digable Planets.

Ish and Avey are massive fans of each other’s work — Animal Collective and Shabazz Palaces have even remixed tracks for each other.

This convo takes in a lot: how seeing Animal Collective play live got Ish back into making his own records when he thought he was done with music; what artists they’re both vibing on rn; Ish’s goal to “elasticize minds” with his live shows; and the “secret sauce” that goes into writing Animal Collective and Shabazz Palaces songs.

Check it out, and subscribe now to stay in the loop on future episodes of the Talkhouse Podcast. —Elia Einhorn, Talkhouse Podcast host and producer

Today’s episode was co-produced by Mark Yoshizumi. Ish was recorded by Dan Arnes at The Knitting Factory in Brooklyn. Avey was recorded by Adam McDaniel in Asheville.

The Talkhouse Podcast’s theme song was composed and performed by The Range.