On the Gist, uniting with your would-be kidnappers?

In the interview, Mike talks to former Obama staffer Elliot Williams about his new podcast Made to Fail, a show where he explores the different ways governmental institutions across have been made intentionally dysfunctional, like the Florida unemployment system, and the impact it has on people in need of such infrastructure. All episodes of Made to Fail are available wherever you get your podcasts.

In the spiel, processing Amy Coney Barrett.

Email us at thegist@slate.com

Podcast production by Daniel Schroeder and Margaret Kelley.

Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices