In her new book Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance, psychologist Angela Duckworth argues that getting a leg up in today’s society isn’t based on natural aptitude, test scores or physical ability.

Instead, it’s based on good old-fashioned grit, which she describes as the drive to pursue one’s long-term goals despite setbacks along the way. WBEZ’s Jenn White talks with Duckworth about the concept of grit and why she thinks it’s so crucial to success.